Section 2.23. Scots, English, Doric and Scots Gaelic are the languages of Scotland. Notwithstanding, all documentation of a legal nature, and concerning the actions or deeds of the Scottish Parliament and Justice System, will be recorded in the English language, which will have precedence over any other written translations.
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Section 2.23. Section 2.23. Scots, English, Doric and Scots Gaelic are the languages of Scotland. Notwithstanding, all documentation of a legal nature, and concerning the actions or deeds of the Scottish Parliament and Justice System, will be recorded in the English language, which will have precedence over any other written translations.
Section 2.23. I'd expect a fair bit of debate around this one, and a challenge against having the constitution declare that English is the official language of Scotland. I know it is, in reality, the current normal and officlal language, but if we are to encourage the survival and development of Scots and Gaelic then those languages need to have official standing.
Section 2.23. Cannot agree with suppressing the status of Gaelic within constitution - how dare you!
Gaelic, Scots & English should have equal status. There is a country next door for English supremacy.
Section 2.23. To the Scottish establishment, this is irrelevant. The purpose of this clause is not to say anything about Scots, Doric or Gaelic, but to assert the dominance of standard English. How Scots is demarcated is irrelevant to this purpose - it doesn't matter what they are or what you call them as long as the point is made that they are functionally irrelevant to Scottish society. That the only reference to the autochthonous languages is to assert their subservience to English is symptomatic of the Scottish mainstream attitude - including those strands that might be called 'nationalist' - in general.
Section 2.23. I believe that qualified judges would agree that Doric is simply a form of Scots and if so, it seems unwise for the Constitution to recognise it a a separate language.
Section 2.23. I think this topic gives rise to misunderstanding. It also requires fuller discussion than is permitted by the comment cut-off length, so I may have to spill over into several comments. What is an "official language"? (NB: this section does not use the term.) An official language is generally one in which written legal texts are deemed authentic, so that any disputes as to interpretation can be settled without recourse to comparing different language versions. That was a bugbear in the European Ciurt of Justice, where I used to work. In that context, it makes perfect sense for the language in which legal and legislative documents are deemed to be authentic to be the one most widely used and understood in Scotland, namely, English (though with all the specificities of Scottish legal and other usage, which are different from those in other parts of the English-speaking world).
Section 2.23. In addition to an "official" language, it is quite in order to provide that other languages are "national" languages. Scots and Gaelic are the obvious candidates. Though I still hae ma doots about any distinction between Scots (Lallans?) and Doric - both seem to me to be within the broad spectrum of Scottish speech. Neither is, however, as yet, standardised as a written language, even though various attempts have been made, and that might be awkward when it comes to using Scots/Doric/Lallans "officially".
Section 2.23. The Luxembourgish example might be worth considering, though I think it is too detailed for a constitutional provision. Luxembourgish law provides, in brief, that (1) the national language is Luxembourgish, (2) all legislative and legal documents are to be in French, and (3) any person applying to a public authority in any way may do so in Luxembourgish, French and German and is in principle entitled to a response in the same language.
Proposed Amendments to Section
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Note that the original wording appears again first below and sustains the same comment & voting regime as all other amendment proposals.
Original Version
Section 2.23. Section 2.23. Scots, English, Doric and Scots Gaelic are the languages of Scotland. Notwithstanding, all documentation of a legal nature, and concerning the actions or deeds of the Scottish Parliament and Justice System, will be recorded in the English language, which will have precedence over any other written translations.
Section 2.23. Many would deny that Scots and Doric are different languages.
Section 2.23. I'd expect a fair bit of debate around this one, and a challenge against having the constitution declare that English is the official language of Scotland. I know it is, in reality, the current normal and officlal language, but if we are to encourage the survival and development of Scots and Gaelic then those languages need to have official standing.
Section 2.23. Agree wholeheartedly. The wording as it stands is awful and an insult to Scotland.
Section 2.23. Agree with above.
Section 2.23. Cannot agree with suppressing the status of Gaelic within constitution - how dare you!
Gaelic, Scots & English should have equal status. There is a country next door for English supremacy.
Section 2.23. Agree completely.
Section 2.23. To the Scottish establishment, this is irrelevant. The purpose of this clause is not to say anything about Scots, Doric or Gaelic, but to assert the dominance of standard English. How Scots is demarcated is irrelevant to this purpose - it doesn't matter what they are or what you call them as long as the point is made that they are functionally irrelevant to Scottish society. That the only reference to the autochthonous languages is to assert their subservience to English is symptomatic of the Scottish mainstream attitude - including those strands that might be called 'nationalist' - in general.
Section 2.23. Very well said.
Section 2.23. I believe that qualified judges would agree that Doric is simply a form of Scots and if so, it seems unwise for the Constitution to recognise it a a separate language.
Section 2.23. Indeed, Scots and Doric are variations of the same language.
Section 2.23. I think this topic gives rise to misunderstanding. It also requires fuller discussion than is permitted by the comment cut-off length, so I may have to spill over into several comments. What is an "official language"? (NB: this section does not use the term.) An official language is generally one in which written legal texts are deemed authentic, so that any disputes as to interpretation can be settled without recourse to comparing different language versions. That was a bugbear in the European Ciurt of Justice, where I used to work. In that context, it makes perfect sense for the language in which legal and legislative documents are deemed to be authentic to be the one most widely used and understood in Scotland, namely, English (though with all the specificities of Scottish legal and other usage, which are different from those in other parts of the English-speaking world).
Section 2.23. In addition to an "official" language, it is quite in order to provide that other languages are "national" languages. Scots and Gaelic are the obvious candidates. Though I still hae ma doots about any distinction between Scots (Lallans?) and Doric - both seem to me to be within the broad spectrum of Scottish speech. Neither is, however, as yet, standardised as a written language, even though various attempts have been made, and that might be awkward when it comes to using Scots/Doric/Lallans "officially".
Section 2.23. The Luxembourgish example might be worth considering, though I think it is too detailed for a constitutional provision. Luxembourgish law provides, in brief, that (1) the national language is Luxembourgish, (2) all legislative and legal documents are to be in French, and (3) any person applying to a public authority in any way may do so in Luxembourgish, French and German and is in principle entitled to a response in the same language.