Constitution for Scotland Public Consultation Hub

Section 1.6. Citizenship: All persons, including adopted children, who were UK citizens immediately prior to independence, and were born in Scotland, or were legally resident in Scotland at independence, will become citizens of Scotland.

Proposed Amendments to Section

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Original Version

  • Avatar admin
    Administrator #1  •  2020-08-16 22:05:12

    Section 1.6. Section 1.6. Citizenship: All persons, including adopted children, who were UK citizens immediately prior to independence, and were born in Scotland, or were legally resident in Scotland at independence, will become citizens of Scotland.

      • Caledonialan

        Section 1.6. I'd like to delete my perhaps over-hasty comments on the restrictive nature of the amendments proposed. I think I failed to take sufficient account of the following sections. But I can't find a mechanism for deletion. Could the administrators delete, so as to avoid unnecessary clutter in the discussion?

          • Admin/CfS6

            Section 1.6. Requesting deletion of a comment which does not contravene the guidelines but has already attracted a response is problematical as it would clearly affect the sense of those responses… in that you have asked for it to be disregarded in a subsequent comment will need to suffice

            No responses

Proposed Amendment to Section 1.6.

  • nmi_munro

    Section 1.6. Section 1.6 Citizenship as of right only to residents and those born in independent Scotland. Section 1.6. Citizenship: All persons, including adopted children, who were legally resident in Scotland at independence, or were born in independent Scotland, will become citizens of Scotland.

      • Caledonialan

        Section 1.6. Both this proposal and that of NSCNICK omit the words "who were UK citizens immediately prior to independence", and I tend to agree with the omission. Scotland has always been a welcoming country, and it is difficult to distinguish between those who have settled in Scorland on the simple basis of their previous nationality. But there should be a thorough debate about the basis for "automatic" or "as of right" citizenship. UK citizens only? Also Irish and/or Commonwealth citizens? And EU citizens? Or anyone legally resident on the appointed date?

          • Caledonialan

            Section 1.6. I'm putting my comments here because I don't seem to be able to put them where they belong, under the original proposal. I wonder about the term "citizenship" as opposed to "nationality". Is there an intended distinction? Some people might interpret citizenship as being less that nationality. In the EU, there is European citizenship because there is no European nation and therefore can be no European nationality. I simply mean that some thought should be given to the wording, I don't have a personal preference.

              • Caledonialan

                Section 1.6. Perhaps also some consideration should be given to the fact that not everyone qualified might want Scottish citizenship. The 1922 constitution of the Irish Free State, in a comparable situation, allowed people to choose not to accept Irish citizenship. It also limited qualifying residency to the previous seven years. Perhaps we should debate these matters.

                  • Caledonialan

                    Section 1.6. In response to NSCNICK's proposed amendment, is "retaining nationality of another state" to be interpreted as covering nationality of the rUK? Some thought should perhaps be given to this, as I can see that many Scots with relatives in the rUK will want to be able to visit them freely - a freedom which is not obvious that they would automatically enjoy as purely Scottish citizens, given the decidedly xenophobic attitudes currently prevailing in Little England.

                    No responses
          • nmi_munro

            Section 1.6. I don't see why UK citizens settled in Scotland should have an automatic right to Scottish citizenship while French citizens settled in Scotland do not. The test should be permanent residence in Scotland and a desire to be Scottish. It should not be based on any other previous citizenship. UK has not been friendly to Scottish independence, so why would we want to confer an automatic right to our citizenship on their citizens? Chances are most Scots would have dual citizenship with the UK anyway, as it would not be to the UK's advantage to exclude us, but that would be a matter for the UK.

            No responses
          • echr8

            Section 1.6. The UK Citizens qualification is outrageous, and was so in the White Paper policy too. It would retain a racism introduced cruelly by Thatcher 1983, where you can be born here + yet have no citizenship right, if your parents were only temporary visitors. You inherit their non-citizenship! During the ref I obtained nothing from the Yes campaign, for someone actually in that horrible position and in great emotional suffering. Disqus member called Without Heritage, living in the US, born Glasgow 1984 to overseas student parents.

            No responses
      • drummochy

        Section 1.6. How will "legally resident in Scotland at independence" be defined? On the electoral role? Resident for tax purposes?

        No responses

Proposed Amendment to Section 1.6.

  • NSCNICK

    Section 1.6. Section 1.6. Citizenship: All persons, including adopted children, who were legally resident in Scotland at independence, or were born in independent Scotland, will become citizens of Scotland unless retaining nationality of another state. Those retaining dual or multiple nationality will not have the right to vote until they make an oath of loyalty to the Scottish State.

      • Caledonialan

        Section 1.6. I wonder why "including adopted children" might be necessary. Surely there is no reason why "all persons" should not include adopted children, or any other category of person? I would delete the phrase, which seems to introduce a vague whiff of discrimination, without bringing any positive benefit.

        No responses
      • SS

        Section 1.6. No idea where to post this but my desire would be to include criteria for nationality. I want to be able to have a Scottish passport . I and my family have been here 30 years and so would be full citizens under , probably all criteria, but being born in England might be excluded from having a Scottish passport which would be deeply upsetting.

          • echr8

            Section 1.6. I voted No because no Yes campaign source would say that citizenship by parental descent will be unrefusable. The White Paper's wording "available" did not mean unrefusable. I lodged emergency EU petition 1448/2014 to register that article 8, family life, of ECHR, part of EU law, requires unrefusability. Section 1:7 here at least talks of "right", better worded.
            ECHR covering a binational person's other country makes necessary a power to choose against citizenship, so a section like this 1:6 defining automatic citizenship is a bad idea. Unrefusability, where just the entitlement is automatic, is better.

            No responses

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