Section 1.6. Citizenship: All persons, including adopted children, who were UK citizens immediately prior to independence, and were born in Scotland, or were legally resident in Scotland at independence, will become citizens of Scotland.
Please scrutinise all the proposed amendments and replies before commenting or voting. Short comments are most often read and must not exceed 100 words. You can propose an Amendment at the bottom of this page - please read the guidelines .
Note that the original wording appears again first below and sustains the same comment & voting regime as all other amendment proposals.
Section 1.6. Section 1.6. Citizenship: All persons, including adopted children, who were UK citizens immediately prior to independence, and were born in Scotland, or were legally resident in Scotland at independence, will become citizens of Scotland.
Section 1.6. I'd like to delete my perhaps over-hasty comments on the restrictive nature of the amendments proposed. I think I failed to take sufficient account of the following sections. But I can't find a mechanism for deletion. Could the administrators delete, so as to avoid unnecessary clutter in the discussion?
Section 1.6. Requesting deletion of a comment which does not contravene the guidelines but has already attracted a response is problematical as it would clearly affect the sense of those responses… in that you have asked for it to be disregarded in a subsequent comment will need to suffice
Section 1.6. I can fully agree with section 1.6 as long as it is to be read to include the non-UK citizens that were legally resident in Scotland at independence.
Such a citizenship should only be granted on application and then with simultaneously abandoning the UK or non-UK citizenship.
Section 1.6. Scotland cannot ignore its past as part of its active involvement in the UK. Situations arise from time to time , such as the plight of Ugandan Asians or possibly Ghurkas who fought in the Army, where Scotland may have to consider its partial and historic responsibility to offer displaced people a right to live here. Is this something we leave to the judgement of a future Scottish government and Parliament or should the constitution set certain parameters or guidance?
Section 1.6. Section 1.6. Citizenship: All persons, including adopted children, who were legally resident in Scotland at independence, or were born in independent Scotland, will become citizens of Scotland unless retaining nationality of another state. Those retaining dual or multiple nationality will not have the right to vote until they make an oath of loyalty to the Scottish State.
Section 1.6. This seems to me to be a rather restrictive, "Little Scotland", amendment. I would not like to see Scotland so prickly and inward-looking.
Section 1.6. An oath of loyalty by new, immigrant, citizens may be a normal requred in most countries. Yes, it distiguishes between foreign nationals and and UK/Scots nationals but, in being of dual or multiple nationality, they distinguish themselves. That doesn't deny them the right to participate in our democracy.
Section 1.6. I wonder why "including adopted children" might be necessary. Surely there is no reason why "all persons" should not include adopted children, or any other category of person? I would delete the phrase, which seems to introduce a vague whiff of discrimination, without bringing any positive benefit.
Section 1.6. No idea where to post this but my desire would be to include criteria for nationality. I want to be able to have a Scottish passport . I and my family have been here 30 years and so would be full citizens under , probably all criteria, but being born in England might be excluded from having a Scottish passport which would be deeply upsetting.
Section 1.6. I voted No because no Yes campaign source would say that citizenship by parental descent will be unrefusable. The White Paper's wording "available" did not mean unrefusable. I lodged emergency EU petition 1448/2014 to register that article 8, family life, of ECHR, part of EU law, requires unrefusability. Section 1:7 here at least talks of "right", better worded.
ECHR covering a binational person's other country makes necessary a power to choose against citizenship, so a section like this 1:6 defining automatic citizenship is a bad idea. Unrefusability, where just the entitlement is automatic, is better.
Section 1.6. Section 1.6 Citizenship as of right only to residents and those born in independent Scotland. Section 1.6. Citizenship: All persons, including adopted children, who were legally resident in Scotland at independence, or were born in independent Scotland, will become citizens of Scotland.
Section 1.6. Both this proposal and that of NSCNICK omit the words "who were UK citizens immediately prior to independence", and I tend to agree with the omission. Scotland has always been a welcoming country, and it is difficult to distinguish between those who have settled in Scorland on the simple basis of their previous nationality. But there should be a thorough debate about the basis for "automatic" or "as of right" citizenship. UK citizens only? Also Irish and/or Commonwealth citizens? And EU citizens? Or anyone legally resident on the appointed date?
Section 1.6. I don't see why UK citizens settled in Scotland should have an automatic right to Scottish citizenship while French citizens settled in Scotland do not. The test should be permanent residence in Scotland and a desire to be Scottish. It should not be based on any other previous citizenship. UK has not been friendly to Scottish independence, so why would we want to confer an automatic right to our citizenship on their citizens? Chances are most Scots would have dual citizenship with the UK anyway, as it would not be to the UK's advantage to exclude us, but that would be a matter for the UK.
Section 1.6. I'm putting my comments here because I don't seem to be able to put them where they belong, under the original proposal. I wonder about the term "citizenship" as opposed to "nationality". Is there an intended distinction? Some people might interpret citizenship as being less that nationality. In the EU, there is European citizenship because there is no European nation and therefore can be no European nationality. I simply mean that some thought should be given to the wording, I don't have a personal preference.
Section 1.6. Perhaps also some consideration should be given to the fact that not everyone qualified might want Scottish citizenship. The 1922 constitution of the Irish Free State, in a comparable situation, allowed people to choose not to accept Irish citizenship. It also limited qualifying residency to the previous seven years. Perhaps we should debate these matters.
Section 1.6. In response to NSCNICK's proposed amendment, is "retaining nationality of another state" to be interpreted as covering nationality of the rUK? Some thought should perhaps be given to this, as I can see that many Scots with relatives in the rUK will want to be able to visit them freely - a freedom which is not obvious that they would automatically enjoy as purely Scottish citizens, given the decidedly xenophobic attitudes currently prevailing in Little England.
Section 1.6. The UK Citizens qualification is outrageous, and was so in the White Paper policy too. It would retain a racism introduced cruelly by Thatcher 1983, where you can be born here + yet have no citizenship right, if your parents were only temporary visitors. You inherit their non-citizenship! During the ref I obtained nothing from the Yes campaign, for someone actually in that horrible position and in great emotional suffering. Disqus member called Without Heritage, living in the US, born Glasgow 1984 to overseas student parents.
Section 1.6. Section 1.6. Proposed addition: Previous residents of Scotland of not less than 10 years, who maintain voter registration, may claim, and be granted, citizenship.
(It may be considered appropriate to impose conditions, as suggested elsewhere, to require forfeiture of another citizenship - UK, for example - or swearing an oath of allegiance, which could take place in a Scots embassy overseas as part of a passport application.)
Proposed Amendments to Section
Please scrutinise all the proposed amendments and replies before commenting or voting. Short comments are most often read and must not exceed 100 words.
You can propose an Amendment at the bottom of this page - please read the guidelines .
Note that the original wording appears again first below and sustains the same comment & voting regime as all other amendment proposals.
Original Version
Section 1.6. Section 1.6. Citizenship: All persons, including adopted children, who were UK citizens immediately prior to independence, and were born in Scotland, or were legally resident in Scotland at independence, will become citizens of Scotland.
Section 1.6. I'd like to delete my perhaps over-hasty comments on the restrictive nature of the amendments proposed. I think I failed to take sufficient account of the following sections. But I can't find a mechanism for deletion. Could the administrators delete, so as to avoid unnecessary clutter in the discussion?
Section 1.6. Requesting deletion of a comment which does not contravene the guidelines but has already attracted a response is problematical as it would clearly affect the sense of those responses… in that you have asked for it to be disregarded in a subsequent comment will need to suffice
Section 1.6. I can fully agree with section 1.6 as long as it is to be read to include the non-UK citizens that were legally resident in Scotland at independence.
Such a citizenship should only be granted on application and then with simultaneously abandoning the UK or non-UK citizenship.
Section 1.6. Scotland cannot ignore its past as part of its active involvement in the UK. Situations arise from time to time , such as the plight of Ugandan Asians or possibly Ghurkas who fought in the Army, where Scotland may have to consider its partial and historic responsibility to offer displaced people a right to live here. Is this something we leave to the judgement of a future Scottish government and Parliament or should the constitution set certain parameters or guidance?
Proposed Amendment to Section 1.6.
Section 1.6. Section 1.6. Citizenship: All persons, including adopted children, who were legally resident in Scotland at independence, or were born in independent Scotland, will become citizens of Scotland unless retaining nationality of another state. Those retaining dual or multiple nationality will not have the right to vote until they make an oath of loyalty to the Scottish State.
Section 1.6. This seems to me to be a rather restrictive, "Little Scotland", amendment. I would not like to see Scotland so prickly and inward-looking.
Section 1.6. An oath of loyalty by new, immigrant, citizens may be a normal requred in most countries. Yes, it distiguishes between foreign nationals and and UK/Scots nationals but, in being of dual or multiple nationality, they distinguish themselves. That doesn't deny them the right to participate in our democracy.
Section 1.6. requirement, not "required", sorry.
Section 1.6. I withdraw this comment.
Section 1.6. I wonder why "including adopted children" might be necessary. Surely there is no reason why "all persons" should not include adopted children, or any other category of person? I would delete the phrase, which seems to introduce a vague whiff of discrimination, without bringing any positive benefit.
Section 1.6. No idea where to post this but my desire would be to include criteria for nationality. I want to be able to have a Scottish passport . I and my family have been here 30 years and so would be full citizens under , probably all criteria, but being born in England might be excluded from having a Scottish passport which would be deeply upsetting.
Section 1.6. I voted No because no Yes campaign source would say that citizenship by parental descent will be unrefusable. The White Paper's wording "available" did not mean unrefusable. I lodged emergency EU petition 1448/2014 to register that article 8, family life, of ECHR, part of EU law, requires unrefusability. Section 1:7 here at least talks of "right", better worded.
ECHR covering a binational person's other country makes necessary a power to choose against citizenship, so a section like this 1:6 defining automatic citizenship is a bad idea. Unrefusability, where just the entitlement is automatic, is better.
Proposed Amendment to Section 1.6.
Section 1.6. Section 1.6 Citizenship as of right only to residents and those born in independent Scotland. Section 1.6. Citizenship: All persons, including adopted children, who were legally resident in Scotland at independence, or were born in independent Scotland, will become citizens of Scotland.
Section 1.6. I think this needs a slight re-write to make one coherent amendment - it looks like 2 stuck togther
Section 1.6. Again, I think this is very restrictive. It is at quite the opposite end of the spectrum to the Irish approach.
Section 1.6. I withdraw this comment.
Section 1.6. Both this proposal and that of NSCNICK omit the words "who were UK citizens immediately prior to independence", and I tend to agree with the omission. Scotland has always been a welcoming country, and it is difficult to distinguish between those who have settled in Scorland on the simple basis of their previous nationality. But there should be a thorough debate about the basis for "automatic" or "as of right" citizenship. UK citizens only? Also Irish and/or Commonwealth citizens? And EU citizens? Or anyone legally resident on the appointed date?
Section 1.6. I don't see why UK citizens settled in Scotland should have an automatic right to Scottish citizenship while French citizens settled in Scotland do not. The test should be permanent residence in Scotland and a desire to be Scottish. It should not be based on any other previous citizenship. UK has not been friendly to Scottish independence, so why would we want to confer an automatic right to our citizenship on their citizens? Chances are most Scots would have dual citizenship with the UK anyway, as it would not be to the UK's advantage to exclude us, but that would be a matter for the UK.
Section 1.6. I'm putting my comments here because I don't seem to be able to put them where they belong, under the original proposal. I wonder about the term "citizenship" as opposed to "nationality". Is there an intended distinction? Some people might interpret citizenship as being less that nationality. In the EU, there is European citizenship because there is no European nation and therefore can be no European nationality. I simply mean that some thought should be given to the wording, I don't have a personal preference.
Section 1.6. Perhaps also some consideration should be given to the fact that not everyone qualified might want Scottish citizenship. The 1922 constitution of the Irish Free State, in a comparable situation, allowed people to choose not to accept Irish citizenship. It also limited qualifying residency to the previous seven years. Perhaps we should debate these matters.
Section 1.6. In response to NSCNICK's proposed amendment, is "retaining nationality of another state" to be interpreted as covering nationality of the rUK? Some thought should perhaps be given to this, as I can see that many Scots with relatives in the rUK will want to be able to visit them freely - a freedom which is not obvious that they would automatically enjoy as purely Scottish citizens, given the decidedly xenophobic attitudes currently prevailing in Little England.
Section 1.6. The UK Citizens qualification is outrageous, and was so in the White Paper policy too. It would retain a racism introduced cruelly by Thatcher 1983, where you can be born here + yet have no citizenship right, if your parents were only temporary visitors. You inherit their non-citizenship! During the ref I obtained nothing from the Yes campaign, for someone actually in that horrible position and in great emotional suffering. Disqus member called Without Heritage, living in the US, born Glasgow 1984 to overseas student parents.
Section 1.6. How will "legally resident in Scotland at independence" be defined? On the electoral role? Resident for tax purposes?
Section 1.6. Section 1.6. Proposed addition: Previous residents of Scotland of not less than 10 years, who maintain voter registration, may claim, and be granted, citizenship.
(It may be considered appropriate to impose conditions, as suggested elsewhere, to require forfeiture of another citizenship - UK, for example - or swearing an oath of allegiance, which could take place in a Scots embassy overseas as part of a passport application.)